1975 - Richard Black

Listen Now. Click Play!

Richard Black moved onto Polk Street in 1975 and since then has lived in five different houses in Oakwood. He has recently sold his home at 610 East Lane Street.

“The Pullen Park Carrousel was in a terrible state of disrepair. I think it was Ames Christopher who came up with the idea of a tour, not to compete with the Christmas tour, to raise money. Bill Caligari was national field coordinator for the Miss America Pageant. This thing turned into a weekend event–a street fair with artists on the street, street vendors, food vendors, garden tours, home tours and a fashion show with Miss America. We raised a ton of money for the carrousel.”
“What I’ve learned is that there is no such thing as ownership of an old house. You’re a caretaker for a short time.” – Richard Black

Full Transcript

The following is the transcript of the interview of Mr. Richard Black. The interview was conducted in 2011 for the Society for the Preservation of Historic Oakwood at 610 East Lane Street in Raleigh, North Carolina, by Mr. Peter Rumsey and Ms. Liisa Ogburn. The interview was transcribed by Cynthia Moore Callahan.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: This is Peter Rumsey and Liisa Ogburn interviewing Richard Black in his personal residence on East Lane Street. The street number we'll ask him in a moment. It is four o'clock on a bright summer afternoon, mixed clouds in the sky. We have Winston, the dog, who is in the background and may join us at any minute.

Why don't you go ahead, Richard, and just identify yourself, state where you live, and then we'll begin asking questions?

MS. LIISA OGBURN: And what year you moved in.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Sounds like a criminal investigation, doesn't it? Well, I am Richard Black at 610 East Lane Street, and we have been here seven years--yeah--no, eight years. It was eight years in July. And this is my fifth house in Oakwood.

And we moved--I moved to Oakwood in the--no, I guess the early spring of 1975 was my first experience with the neighborhood. And I've been in and out of here for, what, thirty-five-plus years at this point. And this is probably yet another farewell to Oakwood. I may be back again, but this time it--it may be doubtful, as my, you know, years are running out for renovating and keeping up large houses.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: Tell us briefly the houses that you've owned in Oakwood.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Well, I didn't own them all, but I'll go down--

MR. PETER RUMSEY: Where you lived in.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: I'll go down the list with you. The first house that I lived in was on Polk Street. And incidentally, at that time, which I think I said would have been 1975, we really didn't recognize Oakwood as being much more than Polk Street, East Street, Oakwood Avenue, and the intersections of Bloodworth. And it kind of was the center of Oakwood, and that's where we all kind of lived. And it kind of branched out from there.

When I moved here, it was not a desirable neighborhood to live in. There were a few houses that had been renovated and worked on. I think we had not gained the historic blanket at that point.

(3:00) I think the highway--it had been saved by the highway at that point, I think. But I'm not real sure what the dates of that was.

The first house was on Polk Street next-door to Pat and Greg Edgerton, who still live there. And I rented it from Mary Cordonat. And she had renovated the house somewhat. And I was there with a roommate. And we moved in in the spring and were promptly invited to open it for the Christmas tour that year. Now, exactly what tour that was, I'm not sure, but we'll talk about that when we talk about Christmas tours, I guess.

We went from there to buying a house on Oakwood Avenue from Gary Hester. It is now lived in by Eve Williamson. And I had no money. And we paid Gary two hundred dollars earnest money, and I want to say we paid him sixteen thousand five hundred dollars for that house. Some way we scraped together--no, we got a loan from Raleigh Savings, because one of the Haywood men was instrumental in giving people who had no money money if they would move to Oakwood. And it was probably the easiest money I ever borrowed in my life. You know, I think my mortgage payment was two hundred and some odd dollars a month, and I used to worry about how in the world we were going to pay it. So that was so funny.

We renovated it. We spent a grand total of ten thousand dollars, because that's all we had. And I think my father and Quipman Anderson's father put up the money for that. And we lived there--we lived there and opened that house the following Christmas for the Christmas tour.

We left the neighborhood. Eve Williamson called me out of nowhere and wanted to buy my house. And within three or four hours after we had--I think we had a grand total of maybe twenty-seven thousand dollars in it. And Eve had, I think, maybe fifty thousand to invest in a house. And I sold it just that quickly, and then I laid awake and wondered how I was going to spend all of that money because I was so rich. So that shows you how things have changed in Oakwood since the '70s.

We left the neighborhood shortly. We came back. But we left the neighborhood because we had to have a place to live. So we rented an apartment out at Martinique Apartments behind Crabtree, where now a lot of old Oakwood residents are living. They went condo. Eric Ennis is there. Sue Briggs is there. Several people are there. So we stayed there about six months and had decided that there was really nonexistent life outside the perimeters of Oakwood.

So we came back and rented another house on the corner of Polk and Elm, which we stayed in until 1979. And that was the year that the house was open yet again for the Christmas tour, and I was chairman of the tour. That was the first patrons party that Ames Christopher and I dreamt up, which took place at Sue Briggs's house, which I'll talk about later. And it was the first year that we made ten thousand dollars. So it was kind of a record year for the Christmas tour.

We were there a couple of years. And then I moved from the neighborhood, and I'm trying to remember why. Oh, I met my second wife, who happened to be an Oakwood resident. I had known her. I was working at National Art Interiors and she came to me as a client. And I knew she was familiar. And she and three other girls had rented Sally Parker's house. And her name was Jenna Cline. And we met. I decorated her condo. Went there for dinner one night and stayed for seventeen years and ended up with a son who is now twenty-four years old.

That relationship went in a different direction and I moved to Charlotte for four years. I came back to Raleigh, bought a condo at Bishops Park, which I still own. Was not really that happy to be there at that point in my life.

And I was driving over to Oakwood to visit Lucy Lee Robertson, who's a friend, and we spent a lot of time over here. And for some reason I came down Polk Street, and my very favorite house was for rent. And of course, that happened to be

(9:00) the house on the corner of Polk and East, which in my day belonged to Fern Hughes. And so we jumped all over it. We called Dan Tower, the owner, and we rented the house, and with great anticipation of buying the house until we got in the house. We lived there a year, and we could never really come to an agreement on a fair price based on all of the work that it needed.

And so that triggered me to begin to look for a house to buy, and I bought the house that we're sitting in right now from Ms. Annie Barbour. And there is a story that really needs to be told, but not by me.

That kind of gives you some background on my progression through the neighborhood and, I think, three rental houses and two owned houses.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: Tell us why you came to Oakwood in the first place.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: I found out about Oakwood in 1971. I lived in Smithfield. I worked as a designer at Jones Brother Furniture Company on Highway 70, and across the street was Stewart Woodard, who was an Oakwood resident, and we became friends. He worked at a company, I think, called The Pilgrim House or something. It was an Ethan Allen store, very small. Stewart and I became friends, and so through Stewart I was exposed to Oakwood and thought, you know, how wonderful it would be. And incidentally, at that time in my life I was married to yet another woman, which was short-lived.

So we--you know, we lived in--we moved from Smithfield to Raleigh, and then we had friends in Oakwood and we were over here visiting. And I just thought it was a great way to live. I felt very comfortable and I felt like that it was a welcoming community that would allow all kinds of folks to be who they are, and you were embraced. And what I liked about it was that you could be as involved in the community or as uninvolved as you chose to be. So therefore, it felt comfortable to me, because my life was certainly changing, you know, at the drop of a hat. I was just all over the place for twenty years. So, you know, it always felt like home. And every time I left, invariably, I would come back here. You know, it

(12:00) would be the first place that I would look.

And when this house was bought, I truly thought that I would never leave, until the house became so difficult, you know, at my age, which is not old, but still difficult for me to maintain alone. Given Jim's health situation, it is a tremendous amount of work. And being as fanatical about everything as I am, you know, there is just not enough hours in the day to get it all done and still run a decorating business. So that--that was what triggered us selling the house just recently.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: Tell us about your current partner.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Well, Jim Henley is from Mount Holly, North Carolina. I met him--he worked for the governor's office. When Jim Hunt was governor, he worked in the Math and Science Alliance Foundation that was set up by Jim Hunt. And he was a--worked at Discovery Place, the museum in Charlotte. And he left there and moved to Wilson and became director of a little museum there called Imagination Station. Jim started having some health issues and was unable to go at that pace, so he really kind of, you know, retired from--he taught for many years before he got into the museum industry. And he went back to teaching for a while, and then he just was unable to continue at that pace because of health issues.

So that's when he started working with me in the business. And as things are now, we have the store at Five Points and I still have the decorating business, and we just do what we can when we feel like it. So that has proved to work and I hope I'll be able to continue to do it just like that.

But we are moving back to the condominium, which is perfect for our age and his condition and a good location. And I'm sure I'll still be involved in this neighborhood in some shape, form, or fashion, as I always have.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: How have you seen the neighborhood change?

MR. RICHARD BLACK: How have I seen the neighborhood change? I don't know that the neighborhood has changed much; I think maybe I have changed. I think the neighborhood still has the same embracing feeling that it's always had. I miss the people that were always here. Some of them have gone on from this earth. Many of them are still around, but they left. And I think everybody left wanting to come back.

And I think you get to a point in these houses to where the house will consume you or it will completely take over your life. And I truly remember there was a period of years that--that I truly did not venture beyond the perimeters of Oakwood. That the house, you know, will consume your every waking minute. But when I got to a point to where I really did not venture outside of Oakwood at all, my friends, my activities, it was almost there was no life outside of this community. And I didn't go any further than Cameron Village. I don't go much further than that now.

If somebody tells me I need to go to North Raleigh, it's like, you know, having to pack for a trip. I just--you know, I guess you become an Oakwood snob or you become an inner-beltline snob or--I've heard those terms thrown around in Raleigh for years, and I certainly can relate to what that's about, because as you get older, you really--if you're comfortable, you don't venture far if everything you need is right there at your fingertips. And I wondered in many cases is this healthy, you know.

And I would leave and I would come back. And I would always come back here, because I--I think it felt right and safe to me.

So I don't know that the neighborhood has changed. I think there has been an influx--I don't think that the people that live here now are quite as avant-garde as the crowd was when I lived here and when Barbara was first here. There are stories and there are characters and there are things that I could tell that I would not dare that are wonderful stories.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: Give us one.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: I'll tell you one funny one that is decent. I guess that I would have been--it would have been my twenty-fifth or -sixth birthday, so that would have been, what, 1976? Yeah, about 1976. And there were two older

(18:00) ladies that lived in the neighborhood that we all adored. That was Matilda Matthews and Fern Hughes. And between Matilda and Fern, the house next-door to Fern Hughes's was a burned-out hull, and it sat there for years until Bobbie Dudley and Clark bought that house and renovated it.

And next-door to that house was a couple of guys named Ben Floyd and Phillip somebody. I can't remember. And Ben and I were friends, but we weren't--we were friends from a distance. We weren't particularly fond of each other, probably because we were a lot alike. And of course, Eric was our very good friend.

And it is--it so happened that Eric--I mean, that Ben Floyd and I had the same birthday. And Eric, being a friend to us both, decided he would have a birthday party for us. And this was the day of parties. And when I say parties, people would have parties at the drop of a hat, and they were all grand, elegant, big affairs. We were always doing parties.

So this birthday party was going on for us, and in Eric's library. And Eric had made a cake. And on the cake it said, "Happy birthday, Richard and Ben." When that came out, candles all lit, Ben Floyd said, "I want my own birthday cake." And on that, Eric threw the cake at the floor. We were all speechless. About thirty minutes later, Eric came down in one of his famous caftans. If you know Eric, you remember his caftan phase where he wore caftans. He had these dogs, these horrible dogs, you know, Schnauzers, Boola, Gretchen, and somebody else, that just lived forever. And the dogs were running around in the cake. Eric came down, scooped the cake up, got his fine plates out, scooped it on plates and made us eat it.

On that we--we promptly left after having cake, and it was not the happiest birthday that I've ever had, but it was the funniest, because the next morning the cake that was left, Eric Ennis had taken over to Ben's house and pushed it through the mail chute. Now, that is one of the true funny stories that anybody that was there, including Eric Ennis, will verify. We all tell it, I'm sure, with a different twist, but it was something I shall never forget.

You know, the patrons party--we were talking about the tour a minute ago. The year that

(21:00) I was chairman, we really--I don't know why we decided we needed to make money, needed money for something. So we were coming up with ways that we could make money. And like I said, this was the era of party-giving. And my great goal that year was to get Sue Briggs to open her house for the Christmas tour. And we had her just very, very close. And then because of insurance reasons because of the fine art and things that were in that house, the insurance company just went up in arms about it.

So Sue said, you know, "I will not open the house, but I will give a party." Give a party, ie., that became the first patrons party, and I guess it still continues today. But it was very different from what it was then, you know. You paid--at that time it was some exorbitant price, you know, fifty dollars a couple or something like that, to go to this lovely cocktail buffet. And it was the night--no, it was a couple of nights before the tour. I want to say we had--if the tour was on Saturday, we had that party on Thursday night, I think. And that was our first patrons party.

The Athletic Club, I think, really just kind of started in somebody's backyard. And the neighbors just decided to get together, you know, once a month and have drinks and bring a covered dish. And that went on forever. That started actually before I came.

And the 4th of July picnic used to be, I think, in Jimmy Stronach's yard way back when. I think I'm right there. And that has now moved, I think, to the park.

But everything is pretty much as it was. It's been altered and changed and, I think, for the better in many cases.

I don't know if anyone has talked to you about the carousel benefit that we had, but was that ever a good time. The Pullen Park carousel was in a terrible state of disrepair. And I think maybe Ames came up with the idea to--Ames Christopher, to have a tour. It was going to be a combination garden tour with a few houses open, not to compete with the Christmas tour, but in the spring. And all of the proceeds from this thing would go to restore the animals at the Pullen Park carousel.

We decided--I know what it was--that we needed to do something to get us some city-wide recognition. That's what it was. And so we ventured outside of the perimeters of Oakwood to do something civic.

So this thing mushroomed into not only a garden tour/house tour, but Ames's partner, Bill Caligari, was national field coordinator for the Miss America Pageant, so he came up with the bright idea that he would try to get the reigning Miss America to come to Raleigh to be present for this thing, and with that came her own entourage of people. And so I think maybe Dixie Crew and Bobbie Dudley and some of the women decided, well, we'll have a fashion show, too.

So this thing turned into a weekend event with artists on the street, street vendors, food vendors, garden tours, home tours, and a fashion show with Miss America. So we thought, you know, that the entire town would turn out for this, and they pretty much did. It was an unbelievable mob of folks. And we had that fashion show up in Ames's garden. And they had to construct a special staircase. We had Miss America, who I can't remember who she was that year. We had Miss North Carolina. We had all of these beauty queen people. And it was just great fun. And we raised a lot of money. I don't remember how much, but, you know, we raised a ton of money for the carousel, and we gave it to them.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: You have pictures--I know from having shown the house a couple days ago--of any number of homes that you have renovated. Do you have pictures of the fundraising that you've just described?

MR. RICHARD BLACK: No. But, you know, there were pictures. And I would--I don't know if Bill still has them. I mean, there was a world of stuff that he gave away when he moved just, I think, three or four years ago. And he had--I remember seeing pictures up there of the fashion show.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: You might ask him when you talk to him.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: I will. And maybe he passed them on to somebody here in the neighborhood. Now, he gave me--I have the original poster for the carousel carnival, or whatever we called it--I can't remember--and one of the tickets that I'm going to pass on to Matthew. And I have the original posters from some of the early Christmas tours, which I'm going to give Matthew for the archives room when I leave here in a month or so. But Bill had so much more, and I hope he did put it in the hands of somebody in the neighborhood, because he was glad for anybody to have it that wanted it. But that was a great, great, fun time. But we were always busy.

The other thing funny about the Christmas tour--and that, of course, was our main event. As I said earlier, in these days, all of us that have become relatively successful at that point were just working folks. None of us had any money. I'll never forget when Stewart Woodard and I were talking one day and I asked him what he got for Christmas, and he said he got four gallons of Benjamin Moore paint and he was going to do his living room. And these are all true stories. You know, none of us had furniture. We were making draperies out of sheets, you know.

And when there was a Christmas tour, you know, we wanted all of the houses to be beautiful. I mean, it was nothing to look out on the street and see two people walking up the street carrying a sofa to another house or a wing chair, or whatever you needed to put that house together so it could be presented to the public. And that went on every year that I can remember. If you needed something you didn't have, you know, there was usually somebody over here that had it that would lend it to you. And so, you know, in many of the Christmas tours, you will see the same sofa appear in the same living room. I mean, Stewart and a few more of us--I had one or two good pieces. Stewart had a little more than I did. Eric had a lot of stuff. And so you could always see trickles of our houses throughout, you know, the Christmas tour every year. But it was a fun time, fun, fun time.

MS. LIISA OGBURN: Walk me visually through the streets of Oakwood during your first Christmas tour here.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: I'm sorry?

MS. LIISA OGBURN: Try to paint a visual picture of what Oakwood was like--

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Well, you know, it was--for me, I can equate it to this. Christmas is a feeling to me. And you know, I remember, you know, music on the streets. I remember it feeling almost truly like, you know, an eighteenth-century Christmas. The only time I have ever really had that really perfect Christmas spirit, I think, was the Christmas that I spent in London. And it--it is--it's an all-encompassing, warm, good feeling, but, I mean, you know, it would usually always--now, there was one year that it was not cold.

And I remember that so well, because I had--it was the year I was on Polk Street, and I think I was out there on the porch in shorts, and it was like eighty degrees. And I had decorated the whole front of the house in live, fresh fruit. And the flies were everywhere and the smell was disgusting it was so sweet, because the fruit was beginning to rot. I had a pineapple over the front door that would drip on people's head when they walked in.

And that was the first time, incidentally, that I met Jenna Black, the woman that I married that lived down the street. We had asked them to be--those girls to be hostesses in our houses, and that was my first encounter with Jenna. And little did I know, you know, several--many years passed, and our paths crossed again and we ended up getting married.

But you know, it was standardly cold. There was standardly music. Everything was beautifully lit and decorated. There was a party going on probably every night of the week for the two weeks before Christmas right up until New Year's. And I think the Oakwood tour really kind of started the Christmas season over here. And everybody got into it. Of course, then, you know, we were all young and energetic. And instead of, you know, hanging twelve wreaths on your house, it becomes, you know, trouble for you, it was welcomed at that point. And nobody stressed about getting it done. As a matter of fact, I remember one year Eric's house was on the Christmas tour, and as the tour was beginning, Eric was in his living room decorating his Christmas tree. He just went on with it, and it was fine, you know. And I think people actually loved that.

But you had a real sense of an old, eighteenth-century, real Christmas. Fires would be going. There would be smells, you know, of cinnamon and things cooking in all of these houses. And it was just wonderful.

Another one that stands out in my mind is the year--this is another funny story, Oakwood story that you may have already heard--the year that Bill Caligari and Ames opened their house. And Bill, who is a renowned gourmet cook, did a suckling pig. And he set his table with a feast. And in the middle of that table, he had done a whole pig with an apple in its mouth. Well, you know, we'd all heard about those kinds of things and seen pictures, but nobody had ever really seen one strung out on a table. And that was kind of the talk of the Christmas tour that year.

As a matter of fact, after the tour the pig was frozen. And for several years thereafter, when it was least expected, you would go to dinner at Bill's and the pig would be the centerpiece, or the pig would show up at Ronnie Ellis's, or the pig would show up at a bring-your-own dish. It really kind of became a joke. I think the poor thing finally thawed out and rotted. I don't know what happened, but the pig went away after many years.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: All of us have, in renovating or working on houses, had the occasion of somebody standing in front of your house or knocking on the door saying they had lived there or grown up there or next-door.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: No, I never did. No, I never did. And many people did. Many people would have people come up and say, "I grew up here" and just blatantly ask, "Can I come in?" And of course, I would have gladly welcomed anybody in.

I think the closest I ever came to that was people on the Christmas tour saying, "I have

(33:00) been in this house when thus-and-so lived here." Now, in this particular house we're in now, a Mrs. Barton, you know, a beloved Latin teacher that taught for many, many years at the school that's right up here that's no longer there--I can't remember the name of that school. A lot of people remember coming to this house and being tutored in Latin by Mrs. Barton, who also was a Latin teacher.

And of course, you know the history of this house, you know, Ellen Mordecai's grandson was one of the first owners of this house. I think Mr. Gardner, who was a land speculator and builder, you know, bought these three houses right here that are together from Sears, or one of the catalogs. It's really--we're really not quite sure what catalog this house came from, but it is a catalog house. Came here on a train car in pieces, numbered pieces, down to the last nail. And it will be a hundred years old next year.

We just had the inspection, and the inspector that came here talked with me briefly as he was leaving. And he said in all of his years of inspecting houses, he said--I said, "Well, how did we rack, you know, on a scale from one to ten?" He said, "For a hundred-year-old house, you're an eleven." He said he had never inspected a house in Oakwood that had no problems. He said it was like a good house. And I said, "Well, you know, we had problems." He said, "Yeah, you had problems that were fixable," he said, "but so many of them have problems that are not fixable." So that was a great compliment to me.

So where was I going with that? I got off on a tangent.

MS. LIISA OGBURN: The history of the house.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Talking about the house, you know, a Sears house built in pieces and three of them alike. So you know, it's been a great experience being here.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: As you--as you're leaving the neighborhood, what would you say to the neighborhood about what people here should do or continue to do to keep what--

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Well, you know, what I have learned, Peter, about so many things is that, you know, there's really no--there's really no such thing, in my opinion, as ownership of an old house, you know. You're a caretaker for a short time. And I think it is so important, you know, to keep these houses maintained as well as you possibly can afford to. And you know, we all know what kind of expense that is.

But you know, I feel so good about the people that have bought this house, because they

(36:00) love the house. And after showing this house for a year, and we have--it's been like it being on tour for a whole year. There have been people that I really did not want to buy this house. Not that I--I welcome them to come in and personalize it and make it their house. That doesn't bother me. But the thoughts of somebody coming in after we've managed to save it for a hundred years, me and other people, and not to maintain the house does bother me. And I've seen that happen. And I feel so confident that these people--you know, they're coming here with a family, children, grandchildren. And it's a house that I think needs that.

Jim and I do not need this house at this point. We do not entertain. We do not use it. Jim hasn't been upstairs in probably a year, you know. So we live back there. And so I thought, you know, we might as well live in an apartment, because that's the amount of space we use. So it was time, truly time to move on, and it is bittersweet. I certainly will not miss all the yard work. And even with help, you know, in that yard weekly, I can't keep up with it. So it's time to pass this torch to a younger family that can enjoy it.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: I don't think you've told us where you grew up.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: I grew up--well, I grew up in the piedmont area of North Carolina in a town that is now called Eden, North Carolina, which is--in my day it was called Leaksville. And I was born there in 1950. And my father was transferred with Fieldcrest Mills from Eden to Smithfield in 1960. And I lived there until, you know, the '70s. Went to school and then moved--in the '70s moved from Smithfield to Raleigh to Oakwood. And then that's really kind of the story. I never ventured that far. You know, I lived in Charlotte for a brief time. I lived in Atlanta when I was in school. I regret that I didn't take the opportunity when I was younger to live somewhere like New York or California, but I don't think I've missed a lot. I've visited there plenty of times.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: You've decorated houses throughout the city. I showed the house the other day to somebody whose house you had decorated. What houses in Oakwood have you decorated?

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Well, you know, everybody in Oakwood in my day was their own decorator, you know. There's still a lot of those around over here. But, well, gosh, I really don't think--well, I take that back. I'm working with a client right now in Oakwood, Elizabeth White and

(39:00) her husband. I did some work for Larry Wheeler, you know, another Oakwood resident that maybe people don't know about.

Larry Wheeler, who is now the director of the North Carolina Museum of Art, had a long time here in the neighborhood right across the street from me on Polk Street. And he added a lot of glamour and color to the neighborhood when he was here. And he was an entree for us, by the way, into a lot of things when he was assistant deputy of cultural resources under the--under Sarah Hodgkins. Larry was a good in for this community into things, and he helped us a great deal. And I don't know that he always gets credit for that, because he's a very withdrawn, kind of quiet guy.

Charles Robinson, I don't know if you know of him or not. Incredibly brilliant man. Lived on Polk Street, had a collection of fine furniture second only to that in the Smithsonian. And went back to Washington and now works for--or did work for the Smithsonian Institute of Fine Arts. He lived on Polk Street.

You know, there were so many people that have aided this community that have gone, come and gone, and that really people don't know about. You know, I don't know how many people remember Larry was a part of this community, Charles Robinson was a part. Missy and Danny Graves were a part of this community.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: Who was that?

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Missy and Danny Graves, G-r-a-v-e-s. But you know, it's funny because the time that I remember--one of the--one of the leading families in Oakwood during the days when so much was going on was James and Dixie Crew. You know, their boys--one of their boys--or both of their boys--I can't remember--still live--both of them live here still. They were raised here and came back here and have lived here with their families.

You know, just walking down Polk Street, you know, there was Dixie and Jim on the corner, Matilda, Eric, Bobbie and Clark Dudley, Randy Madry, Dr. Madry's son, and Muriel. These are people we hardly think of anymore.

Sabre had been a mainstay in the neighborhood. I shall never forget a Christmas party at Ames Christopher's house when Sabre Taylor came and brought her daughter, who's still in and out of the neighborhood. She was just a tiny, wee child, a toddler. And Matilda Matthews did not like children and made no bones about it. And I shall never forget that child under the dining room table pulling at Matilda's shoes and Matilda kicking her under the table. That's a true story.

But, you know, Fern Hughes was across the

(42:00) street. And the Edgertons, who have been here for, gosh, since the inception of what's going on, Pat and Greg, fine, fine people. Stewart Woodard and Jim Cash. Jim passed away years ago. And Ronnie Ellis, who we still seeing walking the streets of Oakwood, and he will never, you know, relinquish his ties with this community. And he has been, you know, an unbelievable asset. And you know, talk about somebody that could be a historian and can really tell you stuff, Ronnie could just--and I'm sure he has. He would be great fun to talk to. But it was--it was a wonderful time.

And I don't talk a lot about Vallie Henderson. I lived next-door to her for about a year and a half. I loved her dearly. We were good friends. She would never let me in the front door of her house. I tried everything I could think of to get in Vallie's house. Nobody got in Vallie's house. She was, you know, the founder and president of the garden club. And I can remember she and Archie. You know, Archie had a bulldog that looked just like him. They would walk down the street, this little bulldog and Archie Henderson. And I never shall forget Archie, the bulldog, and Vallie out in her yard picking every oak leaf out of the pine straw so it would be perfect, you know. And I thought I was eccentric until I saw that.

And I think that's the great thing about the neighborhood: You can be just as crazy as a bedbug and be over here, and it's okay. They'll let you do it. And nobody bothers you and you don't bother anybody.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: I think that's a great way to conclude the interview right now.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: This has been great fun, great fun.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: To be continued. You're to think of stories. We're going to hear stories. We'll get back with you.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Yeah.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: But doesn't hesitate to call us.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Find somebody that will tell you the stories that I won't tell you. Those are the good stories. Those are the good stories.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: Give us--give us a keyword for at least two stories.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: A keyword? Oh, okay, I will. I'll give you a keyword, and then it can become--it can become something for you to research and try to find out about. The Miss Oakwood pageant, think about that. Broken windows and patio furniture, that's all I'm saying. So you see, it is a normal neighborhood. You have all the great, the good, the bad, and the indifferent, you know, which makes it the perfect place to live.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: Richard, you're great.

MS. LIISA OGBURN: Thank you.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Thank you for letting me do this. And if I do, you know, think of any other wonderful stuff--who have you not--is still

(45:00) going?

MS. LIISA OGBURN: Yeah, it's okay.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Who have you not called that we need to get? I will talk with Bill.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: Sue Tuck.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Sue Tuck Briggs, yeah, she should--she should be able to tell you a lot.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: Bill Makepeace.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Was it you and I talking about him being back in Raleigh or was it somebody else?

MR. PETER RUMSEY: I think we may have talked briefly about it.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Well, I hear that he's back. I don't know where he is, but I hear he's back. You know, he's the one that renovated Fern's house before Fern bought it.

MS. LIISA OGBURN: Yeah, we've got to find him.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: "William I. Makepeace" is how it will be listed in the phone book, I think. I'm not sure. I have not seen him in years.

You know, the other thing, too, has anybody mentioned Rodney Perry living over here? Rodney Perry is an extremely well-regarded and fine designer that lived across the street from Eve Williamson in that little, brick house. He is now in Atlanta or somewhere in Georgia, but he decorated for many well-known folks all over the state, if not all over the country. But, you know, he was another Oakwood asset in the early days. And he started that little house and they sold it and moved to Wake Forest Road in a big, brick house there in the bend of the road.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: I sold a house to his sister and I see her all the time and--

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Ann? Rodney's sister Ann, his brother Curtis?

MR. PETER RUMSEY: No, it's not Ann. The name will come back to me.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Curtis and Ann owned the house--oh, you're talking about up here on Wake Forest Road?

MR. PETER RUMSEY: No, this is his--this is Rodney Perry's sister, who lives now in North Raleigh, is married to a former graphic designer who works at Trader Joe's.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: What house did he sell to her?

MR. PETER RUMSEY: It's just a plain, North Raleigh home.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Well, you know, now, Rod never lived in North Raleigh.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: No, but this--she didn't buy his house. This is his sister.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Oh, I understand. She lives here now?

MR. PETER RUMSEY: She just lives here now.

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Well, you know, his--

MR. PETER RUMSEY: And she was telling me that he's in Atlanta and--

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Somewhere. His brother moved to Raleigh to work with him in his business when he was on Wake Forest Road and lived in the house directly across the street that I bought from him and had Richard Black Interiors in on the corner of Mordecai Drive and Wake Forest Road. That was Rodney's brother Curtis. But Rod did a lot for Oakwood as far as putting it on the map because of who he was and moving to this neighborhood at the time that he did really kind of gave it some credibility, you know, and I think people really began to take Oakwood seriously, where in the beginning they really didn't, you know. And I don't even know that we took it seriously when we all came over here, you know. We

(48:00) learned to very quickly, because once we got engrossed in it, you know, we didn't want to go anywhere else. And I hope it's still that way with people, you know.

It's just amazing throughout the thirty-five years of my life how I have gone away and come back and gone away and come back. And now at sixty-three, I really don't think I'll come back. But you know, I've said that before. Never say never. I said I would never marry again, and I did. So you know, hell, I don't know what I'll do next, you know.

Bobbie and Clark Dudley, I'm so sorry they are not around, you know, to--because could she tell you tales. You know, we had the little store up here. I didn't talk about the little store we opened up three or four years ago here in Oakwood. And Bobbie worked for us there, you know, and she was the first one to have a store there called Victoria, Ltd.

MR. PETER RUMSEY: Tell us just a brief vignette about the store. Where was it and what was it and--

MR. RICHARD BLACK: Yeah, a group of--Jim Henley and me and Myrtle and Jim Talton and Jamie and Rick Skinner, we decided to go together and form a little partnership and make a little store that we could have when we were old and didn't want to work. We could just all kind of gather there. And we weren't going to get real serious about it. We'd sell things and we wouldn't worry about it if we didn't. And because of Jim's health he would run the store, and we would just kind of buy things and put it in there.

Well, we started a little store up the street, rented the space from Mary Lou, and it was called Posh. And for the first couple of years, we did unbelievably well, better than I ever thought we would do. And it became more of a consuming business, really, than we wanted it to. And so the business kind of slacked off here, and we decided we needed more foot traffic. So we moved it to Five Points, and we still have the store. But that's kind of how it started.